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The Florida Legislature is discussing a variety of changes and adjustments to the Save Our Homes tax laws that cap annual increases for Homesteaded property and offer a $25,000 exemption. As property values have risen, people complain that neighbors pay radically different taxes for almost identical properties merely based on when they were purchased. Has this affected you? Do you pay more in taxes than your neighbors because of Save Our Homes, or are you a long-time resident who has been capped and pays much less than neighbors? Is this fair? What could/should the Legislature do to create a more equitable situation? A Times report is here: http://www.sptimes.com/2006/webspecials06/save_our_homes/
The Citizens can fix this mess!
Cut Property Taxes Now
Forward this message far and wide for tax relief!
A Simple and Effective Citizens’ Tax Relief Proposal for Florida: 1.25% property tax cap for everyone.
See Dr. McKalip and Tax Fighter David Simpson on ABC Action News (Tampa Bay) tonight at 5 or 6 pm about the initiative! (10/11/07)
Press conference at St. Pete City Hall Wed. 10/17 2pm , 175 5th St. N. St. Petersburg.
1. Go To www.CutPropertyTaxesNow.com to download a petition to sign.
2. Fill in your address and it will help fill out the petition for you!
3. Print and mail it in.
4. Donate money for a successful campaign with the “contribute” button at the site.
5. Go to www.CutTaxesNow.com to sign up for this email distribution list (if this was forwarded to you).
Today, Cut Property Taxes Now - a new and separate organization - announced its proposal to amend the state constitution in 11/08 to cut taxes for all Florida Property Owners. The Key points of the proposal would:
To put it more simply, here are the taxes that would be paid on all property based on its taxable value (the value on your Trim notice after Save Our Homes and exemptions). This applies to homesteaders and non-homesteaders:
Taxable Value Property Tax
$100,000 $1,250
$200,000 $2,500
$300,000 $3,750
$500,000 $6,250
$750,000 $9,375
$1,000,000 $12,500
Last year, local Governments in Florida collected a record $30.4 billion in property taxes, nearly twice what was collected in 2000. The “One and a Quarter” Solution would have allowed $22.4 Billion, cutting local tax collections an average of about 25% (a quarter) around the state. The money is being wasted on corporate welfare, failed social welfare, government mismanagement and waste and excessive benefits packages for government workers.
Cut Property Taxes Now is headed by Lee Sullivan, of Bay Taxpayer Alliance in the Panhandle, David McKalip, M.D., of Cut Taxes Now in Tampa Bay and Ira Paul, of Independent Voices for Better Education in Miami-Dade.
Are you fed up with the overspending at your local governments? Are you disgusted that the politicians can’t find a way to cut taxes for all those who are actually paying the high taxes? Are you angry that tax collections have doubled since 2000, people are leaving the state, the Florida economy is spiraling downward and businesses can’t grow or must close?
The time is now. It is up to us. Let’s take action to bring government back down to size and achieve the tax relief our politicians will never give us!
Go to www.CutPropertyTaxesNow.com and download the petition. Sign it and mail it in today.
Paid Political Advertisement Sponsored and Paid for In Kind by David McKalip, M.D., 1201 5th Ave. N. #210, St. Petersburg, FL 33705.
discussion moot now
As far as I understand it, The Governor didn't know how to handle this mess so what does a good politian do? He sent it to committee for study!
So all the smug old time homesteaders are safe for at least another few years, while I read of an exodus out of Florida due to property taxes and Insurance rate escalation that are out of sight.
Cancel All Debts to the Banks. Let Homeowners Own Outright.
June 23, 2006
Friday
Well, if we cancelled all debts to the banks, and let hardpressed homeowners own their homes outright, and we also cancelled all property taxes on the homes of people earning less than, say, 25 thousand per year, and only had gradually escalating property taxes on those earning more so that those at the top paid the biggest property taxes, and the vast majority paid very little in property taxes -- then, I suspect, a lot of people could keep their homes.
But, of course, the precondition to getting to that is the expropriation of the capitalist ruling class by the working class.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
--Allan Greene
a/k/a tompaine1917@yahoo.com
Use The National Guard To Force Socialists To Get Jobs.
Maybe if the socialist deadbeats got jobs the tax burden would be a lot less for everyone.
Right-wing Fake "Liberty-lover" Defends Government Violence
June 23, 2006
Friday
Whoop! There it is!
Right-wing fake "liberty-lover" defends statist, authoritarian, governmental violence and force.
--Allan Greene
a/k/a tompaine1917@yahoo.com
¿what?
You are apparently ignoring the impact of property taxes on renters. They are indirectly paying 3-4 times their share of the tax increases since 2000. That's not discriminatory?
Another hidden factor is the small business owner's overhead costs. Everyone who consumes pays for that.
Take it up with your landlord
Actually, you don't own anything and you don't pay taxes. You are a renter. Your landlord owns the property, your landlord pays taxes, and he has selected to pass these increased costs onto you by increasing your rent. If you don't like it - move.
As for your colorful commentary regarding "smug" homeowners "basking in their wealth". Between the increase in my property taxes and the HUGE increase in my homeowner's insurance there isn't a lot of basking going on. Not to mention the day to day costs of maintaining a home - something renters wouldn't know anything about - toilet broke? Pick up the phone and the landlord takes care of it. Not the case when you own the toilet.
I had FAR more disposable income when I was a renter than I do as a homeowner and it gets harder every day.
Full Time Ownership/Part Time Resident
We just recently returned to our home in Atlanta, Ga. after spending
several months in St. Pete.
During our stay we visited other communities south of St. Pete with
the intentions of buying property elsewhere since the Powers to be in St. Pete has just about taxed us out of their fair city. We have
been in St. Pete 20 years and have used our home for our family a
place to vacation and my wife and I to spend our retirement in a
warm environment.
I pay 5 times the taxes than my neighbor across the street, yet I
can not vote for anyone in Florida government. St. Pete tax accessors can and do jack up my property value ever year, no 3 percent cap here.
In the Atlanta area I have a home that is 3 times larger than the
1000 sq ft home in St. Pete. Since I am a senior citizen, I pay
no school tax which along with Homestead Exemption reduces my
taxes significantly.
OK, St. Pete tax accessors don't give me a Homestead Exemption, I
am good with that, but because I saved and brought property in your
city years ago, do not tax me like I am a freeloader, but treat me
as a contributor to the St. Pete economy.
If I was able to vote for the government of St. Pete, I'd bet that
I would not have to pay an additional tax every year.
EVER HEARD OF TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION ??
Representation
Representation is often misinterpreted. Representation means there will be no tax without representing the need for the tax. That means if you pay tax, they have a need and can explain where the money goes.
As others here have explained, the tax creates or at least encourages stability. My life in Pinellas County started at the age of 4. I have owned my home in Pinellas County for almost 10 years. Those who have been long term residents in the same home did not ask for the mass influx of people, nor did they buy and sell every three months in a market with low interst rates that sent prices soaring as people had to buy quick wihtout time to negotiate or lose the property to someone else. Of course your case is unique, you owned your property for 20 years. I believe it is safe to assume that you will get you tax dollars back ten fold when you decide to relocate to a new destination choice for vacationing.
As far as voting, you vote for your state officials where you reside. You vote for them becuase you spend the majority of your time their and we can assume you are impacted more by the choices they make than the ones made by Florida governing bodies.
If you bought a modest size average home here in Pinellas 20 years ago you would have paid on average 30,000 to 40,000, which today would fetch 200,000 to 250,000. Youc ould own a 'manufactured home' in a resident owned park that you paid maybe 20,000 to 25,000 for 20 years ago and would fetch 110,000 to 125,000 now.
If I may suggest a way to see your fortune and realize you are blessed. Open your eyes and see the human being begging on the street corner, that has no home at all. You have two homes, you only need one. I think you made a very wise descision to buy property as you have undoubtedly saved a great deal on the cost of shelter for your vacationing and you have a retrun on your investment in the appreciation of the property value. You could have stayed in a hotel or motel for a month every year and have nothing to show for it other than the pictures in the family photo album of all your vacations in Florida.
homeless
Did you ever stop to think that the homeless person is on the street because the cost to rent has gone up disproportionately over the past five years? Is it fair to ask that person to shoulder the majority of the tax burden while long term homeowners bask in their wealth and special exemptions on taxing that property? Everyone should pay an equal share of the increasing costs of government. If that were true, there would be much less enthusiasm for spending increases on the part of our county commissioners.
Save our homes changes in the legislature
Based on what? Wealth? Income? Some proportion of each? I know that if I had $100 million in the bank, a plane, a yacht, a home in St. Moritz and owned a business worth billions, one phone call is it would take to get the legislature to see things exactly as I see them.
Hm-mmm! Methinks that what we have here is "Reverse Robin-Hoodism", where the Hoods steal from the poor and give to the rich.
taxes
The point is being missed. The very notion that property taxes should rise just because the market value goes up is a total misunderstanding of the purpose of taxes. Taxes are collected to provide services to those who need them. Someone who is already here needs no more services than they EVER had before. If the newcomers are paying more taxes then all is right in the universe as they are the ones causing the extra infrastructure expenses. Someone who has remained in the same area for many years does NOT need a bigger water and sewage plant or 4-6 lanes roads, the ones that were here before were JUST FINE! All levels of government leaders salivate at the chance to get their greedy hands on more taxpayer money and the Save our Homes laws are one way to make sure the PROPER taxpayers are footing the bills THEY have created. Property taxes should NOT be tied to value of homes, they should be tied to the cost of needed services! Just because a house value doubles over a year does NOT mean the cost of road building goes up the same! Government worms--keep your hands OFF of OUR money!
taxes
Property taxes are not tied to the value of each home, they are set to cover the cost of services. This figure is represented by the annual budget, and represents the whole pie. The slices are at issue in the effect of the Save Our Homes cap. The folks benefiting from the 3% cap have to pay a smaller slice. This shifts the burden to the others' slices, reflecting higher residential and commercial rental prices. The pie is the same size. The Times has covered the problem with teachers and policemen who can't afford to live here, but won't we also miss the quirky and quaint little shops that are priced out of town?
Sytem Of Equations.
What Abernathy means is the budget is determined by someone, and someone then works out a sytem of equations to distribute the tax liability amongst taxpayers. She is incorrect when she asserts that taxes are not tied to real-estate value. They are. Any fool knows a cottage on the beach and a bungalow in Kenneth City are not equal in value even if they are identical.
If the system was really fair no one's home would be subject to confiscation by the government. Period. The average price for a house in your community ought to determine your Homestead Exemption.
No one talks about the free-ride non-profits and religious organizations get with their taxes. If your building sits on prime commerical property in the middle of Moronia By The Bay, you shouldnt get a free ride (unless youre uncommonly attractive and effortlessly slender).
Commonsense Ed Is Correct.
Ed is correct. Taxes exist to pay for the stuff citizens need or want. Old Timers have paid a lot of taxes. Taxpayers and inflated real estate values are NOT a money tree for politicians to harvest.
What everyone conveniently forgets is Old Timers paid for the schools, roads, parks, libraries, utilities, etc. that existed when the newbies arrived in town. And we still pay!
HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION: When my parents bought their home in 1960 Homestead Exemption covered about 60% of the value of the home. When I bought my home in 1981 Homestead Exemption covered the same amount, about 60% of the home's value. In 2006 Homestead Exemption covers about 17% of my home's value. That is, the politicians stole about 83% of the Homestead Exemption's original value.
More worrisome to me, though, is the disaster that is looming when the real estate bubble bursts. As it is, the politicians have to lay down tired from raking up all the money that is raining down upon them. But this shower wont last. It never has. Florida is notorious for its boom-bust cycles. What we're lacking is politicans sober enough to recognize what we need, fund it, and prioritize the rest.
Ed, your blinders are
Ed, your blinders are showing.
I am a newcomer but I bought a resale home. I am living in a 19 yr old home that I bought from a widow who passed away. I am not creating any more drain on the services or creating any more traffic than was already being used by the previous homesteader. Yet my property tax on the same old unit was tripled.
Wake up, I hope you never want to sell your home and move somewhere else in Florida because then you will be caught up in this injustice. How does it feel to be homebound, all you previledged homesteaders?
Hi Roger!
Welcome to the club! As soon as you purchased your property you became one of those privileged FL Homesteaders benefitting from the 3% cap. It's a pleasure to have you on our side.
You purchased your home at market value, so I'm sure you can afford to pay taxes at market value too. My neighbor's tax bill is pennies compared to mine, but of course his purchase price 20 years ago was pennies compared to mine too. Thus, our home price to tax rate ratios remain in balance.
If your taxes went up 60% in the next few years, could you afford to keep your house? Likely not. That nightmare is the fiscal reality that inspired "Save Our Homes".
Luckily, you, and I, and all the other FL Homesteaders won't have to worry about that. Thank you "Save Our Homes!"
Exactly
5 or 10 years from now he will be pleading to keep it the way it is.
The truth is, those that are protected at this point tht have resided in the same residence for a long period are fewer than most think. Many of the residents decided to trade up when the interest rates were so low. So the bought at current market value and assumed the new property value as their tax base.
The argument posed about buying a resale home and assuming the services one used by the previous but now deseased owner does not validate the argument. The truth still exists that the population is growing. You argument for assuming her services would only be valid if there were zero population growth. She passed away but two or three people moved in to replace her. The coincidence that you replaced her one for one means that someone else had to go elsewhere.
I did some research and found that based on the reports of the long term capped properties and the short term capped or no cap properties. The truth is the opposite of what most think. Most think if the exemption and save our homes did not exist that they would suddenly drop somewhere closer to what there long term neighbor pays. The truth is you would see at most a 20% decrease at most. The reports say 80% (which is 4 to 1) properties are no longer protected by a long term residence cap. All but 3 homes of the 20 on my block have sold and traded hands in the past five years. 2 of them were bought and sold 4 times. You do not have as many benefiting from the long term protection as you think.
Uh! Roger? Can We Talk?
Homesteads were created so ordinary folks couldnt be forced out of their homes by inflated real estate values. You see, we've been through this before.
Following the Civil War every carpet-bagging Yankee from Snow-bird Land came to Florida to redeem their GAR (Grand Army of the Republic) BONUS (that is, a license to loot & plunder the Rebels). So they took over every city hall and county court-house and the state capitol, and jacked-up the taxes. Then bought the tax deeds when the Rebels couldnt pay the taxes on their land. (one of my kinsmen, Colonel Robert Gamble actually sat on top of the State Strongbox with a loaded pistol and threatened to shoot the Yankee Governor who came to empty it). So, when the Old Rebels got their state back in the 1870s they created homesteads that were tough for Yankee Carpet-baggers to swindle them out of because the homesteads were pretty much exempt from taxes. This was our thinking: Tax ouselves just enough to take care of the essentials and leave nothing extra for the thieves.
Yankee Carpet-baggers remain with us, though. Jeb Bush is their King, and Mickey is the Kingdom's mascot.
So, Roger, it's like this. SAVE OUR HOMES was created for the Carpet-baggers who wander down here to make a quick buck and leave on the next train. If you stick around for a while you become a bonafide Floridian and start thinking like the rest of us who've been here forever. Think of it as Reverse Carpet-bagging.
Carpet Baggers
Hi Mayor,
I hope you are not realy a Mayor, because I hate to think
that most florida officials think like you.
I am not a Carpet Bagger, so if you can remember your history it
was Sherman that marched through Atlanta and burned the city
down.
Just treat me like a neighbor(a senior citizen) and knock out my
school tax. That will probably lighten my tax by $900.00. At 73
I do not plan on sending any of my children to school.
Right now, I can not vote for the school board in this county.
Just to maintain a home here without me being here cost about $7,000
a year. Guess what percent that is of my Social Security check.
Regards,
Roy
When you are 80
You don't have to pay school tax. No problem. But when you are 80 and the children you did not pay school tax for are becoming law enforcement officers or firemen.... Don't complain that they are not smart enough to protect you or put out the fire burning down your home. You only paid taxes for police and firefighters, not educated ones.
I suppose while we are at it.... Lets just make it even for everyone, and get rid of the cap, soon all those people that mow your lawn, wait on you at the resteraunt, bag your groceries etc.. will not be able to afford to live her and you can put out your own fires, do your own police work, bag your own groceries, etc..........
If you want a break on your taxes, get ready to pay at the grocery store, the resteraunt, the department store, the lawn service etc.... Your prices will all go up as these businesses that also eke by right now will have to raise there rates to afford to stay. No more $15.00 including tip dinner, get ready to pay $30.00, how about $250 or $300 a month to keep the grass mowed, or instead of $200 a month for groceries, how about $600 or maybe more.
The service people can not afford to pay the tax rate you pay, so you pay the taxes because you wanted to move in, or you pay the higheer wages so they can afford to stay and serve you. It's up to you, just let us know what you decide. But don't take too long, before you know it the benefit will be in your favor as well and you will want the exemption to remain in place, so stick to your guns and get it done now so 10 years from now you will be the one forced out, when your social security check does not cover you cost of living here.
Save our homes . . . .
What could be fairer than to tax the parents of the kids that use the facilities created and paid for by the RE tax? You want more services? Sure, but don't expect EVERYONE to pay for what YOU want!
What could be more equitable and charitable than to take the burden of school tax off the shoulders of seniors whose kids have long gone on to friendlier climes? Indeed, why should anyone who is retired have to pay ANY municipal tax at all, including sales tax? Leave the old folks alone, I say!
As mentioned before
HERB!
I presume then you support my not having to pay for medicare or social security? How about the costs to make public buildings and roadways handicapped accesible? I don't have kids - can I choose to not pay for schools as well? I don't directly benefit from any of these programs so why should I have to pay for them?
And I agree, EVERYONE shouldn't have to pay for what YOU want . . .like senior centers, community rooms, etc.
I agree with the Mayor of Moronia - no home should be taxed. However your age or life situation is irrelevant in this equation.
LET'S MAKE A DEAL
Roy!
I'll eliminate your education tax and you eliminate my required contributions to social security, medicare, and any other social program I don't benefit from directly. Do we have a deal?
And frankly, if you can afford to maintain a 3,000 square foot home in Atlanta and a 1,000 square foot home in St. Pete, I don't really think your social security check is critical to your living situation. You're shoosing between areas of Florda for your summer home, not between eating or buying medication. Let's keep some perspective.
And before you pounce, know that I have property in areas where I don't get to vote or benefit from "resident perks" in the tax law. However, I knew that going in - as did you.
Roy.
I'll be surprised if any Florida officials are like me.
General Sherman also marched thru South Carolina and murdered my 3rd Great-grandmother. And "yes!" I know he didnt personally kill her. His men did.
I take Southern Hospitality seriously. My ancestors are famous for it. During Reconstruction Florida's Military Governor was a former army lieutenant who found himself sick, alone, and befriended by my family in 1839. In 1865 when he was a general he didnt forget the kindness.
To Jwb and the Mayor of morons
Interesting replies. I especially liked the civil war story. I knew this argument would be impossible to reason between the old timers and the newbies.
I can't buy your arguments when I will always pay 3 times the tax you will even though I have "save our homes" now. I'm hoping Jeb comes to the rescue. Isn't he from Texas?
I'm a newbie too!
Roger,
Believe me I feel your pain, while I lived in the state for 9 years I purchaed my home just two years ago. In my neighborhood most of the homes were built between 1920 and 1925 (the oldest home in St. Pete is just a few blocks away) so you can imagine the disparity in taxes. When I purchased my property the previous year's tax payment was listed as $718 for the previous resident who has been here since dirt was young. This year I paid just under $4,000. For a 1,200 square foot house, on street parking, and almost no yard! The older couple next door (20+ year residents) pay around $1,000 for a nearly identical house.
Very frustrating! However, I maintain it's better to be able to budget for taxes over the anticipated lifespan of my residency here, then risk being taxed out of my home 10 years from now because investors have artificially driven up values. For example, (and I know this isn't exactly a "comp" for my house, but serves well for illustrative purposes) there is an multi-unit building across the street from me that has sold twice in the last 6 months. First for $260,00 then for just over $400,000, and now it's listed again for $700,000! If the landlords invested $30,000 in improvements to the building each time it sold that would be a lot. Crazy. . .I'll pay the taxes as long as I can count on being safe in the long run.
Though I do, of course, support the Mayor's argument for no taxes at all. Obviously, no taxes is better than high taxes.
A Home Should Not Be Taxed.
I mean, you gotta have a house to live in. Your medicine isnt taxed. Your groceries arent taxed. The necessities arent taxed! Except for your home. They go after your house.
Bush's 2006-2007 Budget is about 20 BILLION more than it was a couple of years ago. That's an increase of about $13 HUNDRED per person.
As a society we need to determine what our priorities are. If taking care of Mexico's indigent population is our #1 issue, then we need to fund them for 100% of their needs. Food, shelter, ballet lessons for the kids...whatever it takes.
Then fund whatever is #2 on the list. Say, prisoners. First-rate accommodations and entertainment and medical-care and cuisine! Do it right. Make prison something they'll remember fondly. Get the message across that it isnt about punishment.
And when we're out of money, and there is nothing in the kitty to help out the taxpayer...well! Too bad. Maybe next year. Maybe we wont have so many illegals to take care of then. Maybe we can give you a few bucks back on your property taxes.
My Personal Druthers.
Roger if I had my way no one would pay property taxes on their homestead. There is something immoral about taxing your home.
Think about it. If I create all kinds of social problems that require a heaping helping of government services my penalty is virtually nothing. If I'm a large corporation the city, county, and state load me up with heaping helpings of goodies. But the average taxpayer gets crappy schools and a huge tax bill, and confiscation of their home if they cant pay the taxes. Taxpayers (corps dont pay taxes) get soaked for everyone. Government at every level exists to make life difficult for the good citizen.
Taxes
Roger 'ol boy, you have missed another point. I think ALL taxing tied to property value is WRONG. We can argue semantics all day long on how property taxes are or are not tied to value of property but the very fact that S.O.H. exists proves it is! Gov't is an EXTREMELY efficient and voracious taxer that NEVER misses an opportunity to take OPM {other people's money}. Following pure logic, if a homes increased value can cause higher taxes then the Homestead Exemption should rise at an equal pace. The pure fact that remains is that ALL newcomers to ANY area are one of the largest causes of increased need for services and consequently the gov't appetite for money. Many forms of placing the tax burden where it logically belongs have been tried and struck down by the courts, leaving us in the quandry we are now in. Just because you bought a deceased woman's house does not disqualify you as a newcomer. There has got to be a better way to get the essential services paid for without hampering peoples ability to better their lives OR enacting an income tax. Part of the problem lies with too much being expected from government which really is the biggest problem of all.
Taxes.
I've been crunching some numbers from the State's recent budgets.
We spend $18 THOUSAND per inmate in prison....$50 MILLION goes for 2,800 aliens. $38 HUNDRED per inmate for medical care.
We spend $16 BILLION on schools. $10.6 THOUSAND per student. $11.78 per hour of instruction per child. $11 HUNDRED of taxes per person in this state.
Save Our Homes
"TAXES" IS THE MOST HATED WORD IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE; HOWEVER, "PROPERTY TAXES" ARE LOVED WITH EQUAL ENTHUSIASM. THE PROBLEM IS THAT MONEY HAS NEVER BEEN CONSIDERED "PROPERTY". TO ESTABLISH UNIFORMITY, ALL WEALTH SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO TAX. A HOME IS NOT WEALTH. IT IS THE CORE OF ALL EXISTENCE. THE BASIC NEED FOR A SECURE AND SUFFICIENT SHELTER SHOULD NOT ONLY BE FREE OF ANY TAX, BUT NURTURED BY THE GOVERNMENT WHICH HAS BEEN CONCEIVED TO SERVE IT. IT SHOULD NOT BE DEFINED AS THE SUSTAINING FORCE FOR THAT GOVERNMENT. FREEING THE AVERAGE HOME FROM ANY TAX COULD BECOME ONE OF THE MOST STABILIZING ELEMENTS IN SOCIETY AND IN COMING YEARS, CHANGE MUCH OF THE WAY WE LIVE.
Taking it further
The scope of this special feature of the St Pete Times is far too limited in my opinion.
The debate as presented is biased and lopsided and makes the impression of being politically and economically motivated and aimed at removing in particular the 3% cap, resulting in access to the few valuable properties inhabited by long-time residents -- something which developers and condominium builders have been most longingly thirsting for.
It is good to see that the discussion in this forum is taking the issues further and doesn't stop where the editorial staff did! Let me also throw in some questions which remain unanswered and some aspects left completely in the dark, such as:
In response to some of these questions the discussion on removing the 3% cap seems completely inconsequential. It should rather be argued to:
Sorry for being so long, but the short-sighted and unbalanced reporting has upset me. A lot.
the "tax break" reply to Just One of Us post March 31
Been here for 27 years; would like to stay; glad I don't have higher taxes (that's why I haven't "moved up". The only people who have this so called tax break are the ones who have owned their homes for years...and paid the taxes to build the schools infrastructure etc (built pinellas county). It's not that we pay no taxes; taxes are a lot for us who accepted the low florida wages for years and are now retired and continue to work at the LOW Florida wages. When we bought our home we took into account what the taxes were in figuring what we could afford. We didn't get the taxes the former owner got - they had their homestead and lived here for 17 years; we paid more and figured on it. Now people come and want to buy unaffordable houses or house they can WELL AFFORD but want to pay less taxes "just because they want them". Investors want to run up the property values but also "want" the lower taxes the long time residents get.
What I really want to say is that I hope the writer JUST ONE OF US (who posted on March 31) will run for office or get on the local representation). We can use people who can think.
p.s. Do you think this is just about taxes? Maybe it's about real estate people who want to sell homes; banks that want to give big loans and people in the florida government who think maybe it's time for lower or middle income people to get out of Florida and sell our homes to the rich so they have more money coming into the pocket..the one with the hole in it. By the way, now that gambling will be coming in...and it will, they do need houses for those that run gambling and pinellas is kind of landlocked. So this is all about getting the long time residents out of their homes and making room for others.
Tax Penalty
It amazes me that the tax benefit “Save our Homes†provides to long time homeowner is being viewed as a “penalty.†I would like to buy a home someday and I would love to have the penalty of paying less in real estate taxes, however, I will apparently have to the reward of paying higher taxes. I wonder why homeowners who have benefited from increasing property values should also receive a tax break when they move to a new larger home. No one wants to pay taxes and given the choice, we would prefer the other guy paid our taxes. However, the taxes should be somewhat fair and allowing portability is not fair. One could say it would only benefits the house rich and penalizes the houseless poor.
FED UP
Its time for Florida to step up and take the hit. The only fair way out of this proprety tax mess is to initate a State Income Tax. We could all pay our fair share based on what we earned. Property taxes shouled be rolled back to the 1995 levels and then tied to the rate of inflation. Also the sales tax loop holes should be closed.
The "Lottery Lie" should be righted. Lottery money should inhance the school budget, not replace it.
Public money should remain that! Not funneled into private schools. Lets fix the Florida school system. Not detract from it!
Privatization has not saved a penney. It has only cost many people their jobs. It gives away cost control and quality control, nothing more. Execpt it does line the pockets of the well connected. Right JEB!
Tax is tax.
Roll back the taxes then create a state tax based on income. Perhaps you have a few people living in homes that are far less in value than what they can afford, but really you are only moving the tax from one office to another. The value of homes is a pretty good indicator of income level, so those that own higher valued homes owuld end up paying more in taxes again as they pay a precentage of income in state tax. Only the cost of governing goes up because you just created another office for more government workers to occupy at an added cost to the citizens.
tax revolt
I am a long time resident of Pinellas Co. A few years ago I was laid off from my job of 26 years and had to move to another state to remain employed. I had planned on retiring in a few years and living here, having grown up and lived in Florida since 1961.
I had purchased my house in 1990 and planned on keeping it. I wasn't up to speed on the tax law, and I decided to rent the house while I was gone in order to be able to keep it. Boom! Lost my homestead, which I expected, but my taxes doubled. I am back home now and can barely Afford the tax bill.
The taxes should be based on assessed value. They should be lowered for all, and capped at the rate of inflation.
Chicken World.
A flock of chickens are about to come home to roost. Property taxes being at the top of the list, followed closely by the ruinous cost of home-owners insurance, plus the outrageous inflation in the prices of homes, and land the government needs for roads, schools, etc. If these burdens become too much to bear the housing market and tax-base will collapse. Tax revolts take time and leadership and effort, but a collapsed market and tax-base falls on top of you right now.
My kid bought a new home in 2002 for $150,000. In 2005 she sold it for $300,000! Then took the cash and bought a much smaller, older home for the same money. This is insane. It's the same thinking and actions that pushed the 1929 economy into depression. If something cost 150 Grand last week, and sells for 300 Grand this week, then it'll sell for 600 Grand next week. And the whole thing collpased into a huge pile.
Save Our Homes = Screw First-Time Buyers
They've had this same law in California for 27 years: Proposition 13 was a huge turning point - (the key phrase in this article: "wealth transfer to the retirees")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_13
What's interesting is that, prior to the law being enacted, California was famous for having some of the best schools and SAT scores in the country, and every year since then, as they scramble to pay teachers decent wages with higher overhead costs with only nominal revenue increases, the schools and scores have steadily worsened. Meanwhile, to cover their costs, local sales taxes have gone through the roof.
Fortunately (haha!) Florida schools won't have to worry about such a precipitous fall - being on the ground floor in academics means you can't do much worse.
My wife and I moved to the Tampa area a year and a half ago, both have good jobs and make decent money. However, I've looked at the tax records and even with the sky-rocketing prices around here, the idea of paying $5000-$7000 more per year than everybody else on the street is nauseating. Think about it - buying now will cost you over $300,000 more in taxes than the next guy over the next 30 years.
Enough is enough. We're now looking to move out of the state. Let the other suckers subsidize the geazers.
Fpalmroos is off the mark
I think your pointing the finger at the wrong group. Its not the geazers exclusively. Its any long time resident that is getting the unfair avdvantage.
As a recent retiree having saved many years to be able to retire in Florida I was shocked at the tax increase in my resale home after I moved in. I was unaware and not informed of this save our homes provision. My realtor, of course, also failed to let me know. So my fixed income pension has been severely hit before I even have a chance to enjoy my retirement. If Florida doesn't change this mess I also will be looking to take my retirement to another State, geazer that I am.
Save our Homes/ Fair but needs changing
I voted for save our homes as it seemed fair to current homeowners. A fews years ago I say that the idea seemed good, but was heading south. I sold my home and upgraded as this would not be possible in the future due to the tax differences. Sold in 2002 paying 2200 annually in taxes. Paid 160,000 more for the new home and anticipated 5000 in taxes and guess what....I pay 7100 in taxes. This is unaffordable for me and this was 2 1/2 years ago.
I work in the insurance business, in personal lines, and each day hear a new story of how this is effecting people. The current trend is people are moving out of FLORIDA due to taxes and homeowners insurance. No particular state, just out of Florida. People who are staying cant move. My estimate is 80% of the current residents cany afford to buy back their own homes. We will lose the working class if this does not change. The retired persons on a fixed income cant stay, and this is truly sad.
How about a penny tax for property taxes and a revamp of milage...OH and a penny tax for a catastrophic fund for homeowners insurance. This will not hurt the person living on social security realy only purchasing lifes necessary items that are not taxed.
I am glad it is not my job to fix it, but it does not fixing...and SOON!
taxes
I read the articles about taxes going up. My question is why should the cost of gov. go up with the value of real estate. Do any of the representatives consider cutting costs and quit spending money they don't have. If values had remained the same or increased modestly would taxes still have increased to what they are now?
the real problem is...
The underlying problem to this tax discrimination against new buyers and business owners is that established residents who have the greatest political clout have little concern for increased government spending because they are shielded somewhat from runaway tax increases. The solution is to enact a revenue neutral tax rate statute where millage rates decrease in response to increases in value. Another way would be to put a save our homes-like cap on increased tax revenues rather than taxing as a percentage of assessed value.
Level the Playing Field
We must first ask why the save our homes cap and homestead exemptions were implemented in the first place? If the original intent was fairness, how do we achieve that now?
1) The cap/homestead law was designed to help people not lose their current home as property values rose but their incomes did not.
It worked, but now we have bigger problems. Spending as increased dramatically as the population characteristics FL have changed. We need more schools, more infrastructure for the "working" class rather than just retirees.
Why not
a) reduce the overall property tax to a bare bones rate(1%?) of purchase price with an annual increase cap limit and
b) implement a State income tax to make up the difference?
The income tax must include all forms of income so as not to exclude those fortunate enough to live off of investment, pension etc. income alone.
The system should be designed so that those who have income pay their fair share and as they find themselves in a different stage of their lives (less income)they are not penalized by having to give up their homes- the original intent of the law!
Commonsense Is What We Need.
Homesteads should be exempt from taxes....PERIOD. That was the original idea. But there are other ways to get the money. Plenty of counties are adding assessments & impact fees to the prices of homes. The money is paid up-front when the deal is made. The nice thing about this approach is you can assess a property for the services it uses.
I cant recall the last time a cop or firetruck made a visit to Moronia By The Bay. So we dont use those services very much. But there are plenty of neighborhoods that do! Tag those places for the police and fire interventions. Moronia is located close to several schools....KA-CHING! Tag us for schools!
The county/city will make out okay because the assessment gets rung-up every time the property sells. And youre not tossing geezers and low income people into the street or seizing a home for unpaid taxes.
This is unfair!
Try being a non resident. I have had a home here since the mid 80s. I purchased my current vacation home in the late nineties. My taxes are revalued on an annual basis as if i had repurchased the home.
I am paying 20k a year my neighbours who moved in after me (in 2000) are paying 10k.
Fair i think not.
The math does't work
As a long time resident owning a home on the water for 20 years, I am one of the lucky ones getting a break in taxes. I can feel your pain though. If I want to sell my house and move down the street or upgrade my home to potential survive a hurricane, I go in about the same tax bracket as a new resident. These higher taxes also are the reason people aren’t buying waterfront homes now. Believe it or not they will pay the high prices for the waterfront home; they just don’t want the high recurring annual taxes. We also need to keep an eye on where these windfall taxes are going. If I know government, they will spend it rather then save it for a rainy day (real rainy, like a hurricane).
There is one more issue that doesn’t calculate when you look at high taxes for newcomers. Looking at the "Tampa Bay Economic Scorecard" I found some disturbing averages that just don’t fit with our current tax structure. Ranking on a national basis from 1 to 5 and 5 being the highest, we rank 5 in the cost of homes (which equates to taxes) and 1 in average wages. If you don’t have the high paying jobs that can support the high cost of homes and taxes, then people won’t relocate here. That by the way is already happening. Even two family incomes are having a problems paying for homes and taxes in this area. The only people coming here are people who have cashed out their northern real estate and stocks and are semi-retired or retired. These people unfortunately don’t help our employment talent pool that could attract corporations to move here that could bring the high paying jobs. There was a great discussion about all this on USF Public Radio two weeks ago. Trust me the regional officials know our region’s low scoring in job wages and education with high housing cost and taxes just don’t calculate. Something needs to be done.
Windfall taxes.
Everyone thinks there is an excess in tax money because the taxes have skyrocketed. Here is how Taxes work out. They set a budget. They access the homestead properties and subtract the amount received from that from the budget to get the rest of the tax they have to raise. The truth is, the value only comes into play as far as the share the owner has to pay. If you own a $100,000 property you pay half the tax that a $200,000 property owner pays. If your home were $50,000 and the other was $100,000 you would still pay the same tax. They show you a percentage to realize the percentage you pay. If you decrease the value you will pay a higher percentage. When they come up with the budget they realize the total property value, then the tax they need to raise. If the need to raise $100,000 and the total property value for Florida properties was $1,000,000 then you would pay $10,000 per $100,000 of property value. The same thing with lower property value, they still need to raise $100,000 but the total property value is $500,000 then you pay $20,000 per $100,000. You pay the same tax share regardles of the value, they do not set a percentage then charge that percentage, they divide the tax burden propotionately to the value of the home.
Raising the home value does not raise the taxes. Addional police, firefighters, widening of roads, etc raises the tax burden and it is divided based on the proprtion of property value you own.
Fair!
The situation is not unique to Florida; many other states have similar laws in place to protect all homeowners. The premise to these laws is simple, and especially applicable to the market conditions of the last decade. That being, a person who bought a home 20 years ago shouldn't have to pay property taxes rising 10, 20 or even 30% a year because real estate investors and house "flippers" have driven values to artificially inflated heights. With this protection in place the only time a property's taxes are adjusted to reflect fair market value is at the point of sale.
While on the micro-level this may appear unfair, on the macro-level the policy is inherently fair as it benefits everyone equally. I bought property, invested in the neighborhood, and benefited from the 3% cap as my property value went through the roof. My neighbor sold their home recently and my new neighbors "A" are certainly paying much higher taxes then I am, as their property is now being taxed at its full fair market value. However, that new neighbor "A" is also benefiting from the 3% cap. When another new neighbor "B" moves in across the street a few years from now, new neighbor "A" will be paying less taxes than new neighbor "B". And as new folks move in, "B" will be paying less then them and so on, with the benefit benefiting everyone.
I know it isn't fun paying higher taxes than the guy next door (which I do too). However, I imagine it is less fun selling my home 5 years from now because I can no longer afford the taxes.
As for the Homestead Exemption - that concept needs some revision. When it was put place the average home value was much lower. Subsequently, $25,000 represented a much larger portion of the home's value, now it is a drop in the bucket. This law would be fairer if it were a percentage of the home's value at the time of purchase. If one buys a home for $200,000 then one gets taxed on $200,000 and one gets to write off the first 30% (or whatever) of that purchase price. If one pays $400,000 for a house one gets taxed on $400,000, but gets to write off 30% (or whatever) of that purchase price - and so on. In this way both taxes and tax exemptions are tied to the same relative value.
unfair!
This will be along time resident vs newbie resident battle.
As a newbie I pay three times the tax my next door neightbor pays for the exact same home. The only difference is when the home was purchased. I find this to be totally unfair. Why should I be penalized for just being new? We all use the same services that govt. provides. Something needs to be done to level the playing field for all taxpayers!